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| What IS tortoise binding http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=10798 |
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| Author: | daveyjones [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:18 am ] |
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Howdy, 'scuse the green question, but I thought tortoise shell was banned, since it was from sea turtles declared endangered? Is tortoiseshell binding etc from old tortoise shell stock pre-ban, or is it imitation (and if so, what is it made of), or ??? Dave |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:37 am ] |
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After real tortoise shell got too expensive they started making fake stuff out of celluloid. 'Real' celluloid tortiose is now hard to get, since celluloid itself is a fire hazard. I have no idea what it's made of now. |
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| Author: | SteveCourtright [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:52 am ] |
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If memory serves, I saw an article where someone was making his own pickguards, and he used a two part resin/catalyst concoction or the like with one or two dye materials for coloring. I don't remember if it was epoxy per se or some similar polymeric material he used. Bottomline...I think it's plastic. If my memory is faulty, I apologize in advance. Also, I read recently that you have to be careful in attaching a pickguard to your top as the plastic and the wood top have a different coefficient of expansion and cracks can form in the top near the outer perimeter of the pickguard. So, you can't just glue it down fast without regard for the movement of the wood. |
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| Author: | Brad Goodman [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:27 am ] |
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It is made from celluloid nitrate. You can get it from www.axinc.net |
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| Author: | charliewood [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:27 am ] |
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Theres no excure to use real tortoise binding anymore, the desecration of that species was deplorable... In fact they may still become extinct from the damage inflicted to them. Cheers Charliewood |
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| Author: | JohnAbercrombie [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:16 am ] |
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Charlie- I'm with you on protecting sea-turtles. I believe that the main reason for killing them was/is for food. Look in any 'gourmet' cookbook or high-end menu (think Titanic, luxury train dining cars, exclusive hotels) and you are sure to find turtle soup featured. Turtles are easy to catch and survive 'storage' before slaughter, so they are a tempting alternative to fish. The tortoise shell industry (jewellery, buttons, guitar picks, etc) was a side industry. Back to topic: 'Real' tortoiseshell was getting pretty rare even before WWII, I think. Even reasonable-quality guitars from that era sport the celluloid imitation- usually rotting away. Why anybody would put celluloid binding on a guitar today mystifies me (it doesn't take much...). Logic is not a strong human trait- read in the art conservator literature and there is a lot of talk about hide glue sizing disintegrating because of air pollution; here in the luthierie world HHGlue is the current craze. Like most of us here, I'll be tree fertilizer before any of my guitars fall apart on their own, so...on with the hide/fish glue! John |
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| Author: | JohnAbercrombie [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:17 am ] |
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That was cookbooks from the early 1900s... |
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| Author: | Homeboy [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:50 am ] |
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John - The main turtle for turtle soup is the green sea turtle. Tortoiseshell comes from the Hawksbill sea turtle. The hawksbill was hunted almost exclusively for its shell. I love the look of old tortoiseshell combs and such and like tortoiseshell picks but I dont think there is a need for it anymore, and the turtles do need protection. Blake |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:27 am ] |
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Look at almost any old Martin to see why it's a bad idea to glue nitro parts directly to wood. The stuff breaks down chemically over time, and shrinks, pulling the wood with it. The 'standard' Martin pickguard crack runs along the inner side of the plastic, where the line of the pickguard runs almost straight along a grain line of the top, thus concentrating the stress. I have seen old mandos and such in which the pickguard shrinkage has sufficed to pull the top loose from the bracing. John Abercrombie wrote: "Logic is not a strong human trait- read in the art conservator literature and there is a lot of talk about hide glue sizing disintegrating because of air pollution; here in the luthierie world HHGlue is the current craze. " HHG is popular these days for gluing bracing, and with good reason, but not for sizing. HHG is a protien, and there are lots of things that will eat it. If it's left exposed to air it breaks down. The glue inside the joint is not exposed to air, and can hold for a long time if kept dry. It's also far easier to replace or fix than 'modern' glues, such as Titebond. I was told by somebody who knows folks in the museum conservation line that they have two general anathemas that they intone at the start of each day: one for people who use wood screws on antique furniture, and another for those who use Titebond. |
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| Author: | JohnAbercrombie [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:36 pm ] |
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Alan, Blake- Thanks for the corrections. John |
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